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Forum:2019-02-15 (Friday)
Discussion for comic for . Veni, vidi, wiki (I came, I saw, I edited). ---- Well, if Krosp didn't deduce it before, he certainly knows about General Higgs now. --MadCat221 (talk) 06:36, February 15, 2019 (UTC) : Well, Krosp was there when Tarvek deduced that there was a General missing / hiding, and the reason why. So Krosp can probably figure it out. (Of course, Krosp was a little slow about the hat...)SillyOne (talk) 12:41, February 15, 2019 (UTC) :: There's a "cat is out of the bag" joke in here somewhere. 9thGeneral (talk) 16:08, February 15, 2019 (UTC) Wait, didn't Tarvek already meet the Castle clank in Paris? When he patched it in to save Collette? They are acting like this is the first time they've met. Quantheory (talk) 06:57, February 15, 2019 (UTC) : Yep, They . It seems this was done so Higgs could deliver the punch line. In thuis scene, Higgs needs to realize it is Castle Heterodyne. Continuity issue. --Fred1740 (talk) 12:05, February 15, 2019 (UTC) Dang! I was going to say that and you finished your post before I did. :-( ➤ I guess maybe it hasn't met this incarnation of Higgs before. But if they're about to join Agatha, Higgs and Tarvek had better convince it quickly not to say "General" around her -- or to anyone, really. And it raises the question, has Higgs not been undercover before? He was already in the service of Klaus before the Generals learned about Lucrezia-in-Agatha. And he's wearing a British sigil. ➤ : The castle-in-dingbot recognized Higgs straight away. The Castle-in-Otila did as well. Higgs appears to be unchanging, possibly lending credence to the theory that he was the very small figure that fell in the Dyne. If he was, then he be able to provide all sorts of useful exposition. Sort of related, is the "Homecoming King" story considered part of the canon or is it non-canon fan fiction? 9thGeneral (talk) 16:08, February 15, 2019 (UTC) ::The extra stories are generally considered non-canon, although written by the Foglios. is an exception as it occurs within the time frame of the story while the others don't. Old Man Death's hat DOES appear on Maxim's head in story. --Fred1740 (talk) 19:42, February 15, 2019 (UTC) ::: Thanks! I have been mildly pondering the time jumping timeline and the associated Queen's mirrors. That story was difficult to synch with the other data. 9thGeneral (talk) 20:45, February 15, 2019 (UTC) "It looks like one of Agatha's little servant clanks" is strange, too; all this piece of Castle has in common with a dingbot is being small. It's rectilinear rather than round, is the main thing. And Agatha didn't, in fact, make it. Not to mention, again, that Tarvek has met it before. Bkharvey (talk) 07:03, February 15, 2019 (UTC) : But Agatha DID make the castle's body. She extracted the castle from Paris' systems and put it into a dingbot body. BoyfootBear (talk) 14:36, February 15, 2019 (UTC) :: For the bit about Higgs being undercover and being outed, I would say the Castle was more interested in establishing its identity. Especially since Higgs can just kill anyone who overheard--which pleases the Castle. More importantly, is this proof enough for us to 100% accept Higgs as the secret general? 'Black' Victor Cachat (talk) 15:08, February 15, 2019 (UTC) :: @BoyfootBear, why do you say she made it? My impression is that she just waited for it to disengage itself from the city. And it really doesn't look anything like a dingbot; it looks like a very small castle. @'Black' Victor Cachat: I would say that when Higgs had that little pissing contest with Tarvek back on the sub, that counted as an agreement that Tarvek had called it correctly. But about today's page, I think we're meant to understand that this little piece of castle doesn't know any better than to address Higgs freely, as he would any other general. It's rather too bad that it doesn't have instant communication with the rest of the Castle; if Beausoleil's bodies could do it, the Castle should be at least as capable! Bkharvey (talk) 23:18, February 15, 2019 (UTC) ::: When introduced "in person", the mini-Castle is looking down at/touching its body like it's never seen it before. I agree that Agatha (and possibly her assigned student helpers) built it. And as 9thGeneral says above, the Otilla-Castle started to spill Higgs' secret as well, so it's entirely in character for this chunk to do it. --Geoduck42 (talk) 01:32, February 16, 2019 (UTC) :::: Ah. You're right, I didn't look closely enough at the mini-Castle back then. Bkharvey (talk) 01:41, February 16, 2019 (UTC) : Agree with BoyfootBear - and if you compare to the dingbot-ification of Train, Agatha has clearly added to and subtracted from the . From a more practical story-telling perspective, “atypical” dingbot extras like the funnel on Train and the rectilinear body with crenellations of Castle are there as visual/character signals, and don’t necessarily require rigorous in-universe justification. Castle is cubical with crenellations because that’s what a dingbot castle should look like. Scientician (talk) 16:56, February 16, 2019 (UTC) P.S. Krosp is being strange, too: He's clearly not happy about Castle on his head, but he's putting up with it instead of shaking it off. Bkharvey (talk) 07:05, February 15, 2019 (UTC) Uh oh -- I just noticed -- does the reference to "Monday night" in the Studio News section mean that we're not getting a new page 21 hours from now? Bkharvey (talk) 08:25, February 17, 2019 (UTC) : That depends how sneaky you are. (Of course, then the next wait is longer.) Argadi (talk) 10:12, February 17, 2019 (UTC) :There is a new page. Kaja was just saying it wouldn't be colored. --Fred1740 (talk) 12:00, February 17, 2019 (UTC) ::But she also said that her laptop is dead and therefore she won't be able to post anything until she gets home! Bkharvey (talk) 21:05, February 17, 2019 (UTC) ::: Her note says "pages". Monday's strip is cued up and ready to go. --Geoduck42 (talk) 01:34, February 18, 2019 (UTC) :::: ] Bkharvey (talk) 02:10, February 18, 2019 (UTC) :::: :::: :::: ::::: I meant "on standby, in the system, ready to be posted". Not actually available for viewing, like it is now. --Geoduck42 (talk) 05:46, February 18, 2019 (UTC) You're all going to say that I'm pretty slow if I'm just noticing this, but the Castle saying "kill him" based only on Tarvek's family history brings home to me that, like most fantasy, GG is pretty pessimistic about the malleability of human nature -- or at least the GG characters are. Everyone just takes for granted that if you're a Mongfish or a Heterodyne or a Sturmvoraus, you're pretty much guaranteed to be a jerk. I had this problem big time reading Tolkien. I mean, really, every single elf is noble, every single dwarf is greedy, every single orc is evil? (Yeah, I get it that the last of those are manufactured artificial life, so it's less surprising for them all to be the same.) From this perspective I suppose I should feel encouraged that Agatha and Gil and Tarvek (and Bill and Barry, offstage) have managed to be unlike their parents. Maybe at the end of the story, the whole world comes to recognize that the sameness within families is nurture rather than nature. Maybe even the awfulness of sparks in general is corrigible. That'd be nice. Bkharvey (talk) 23:09, February 17, 2019 (UTC) :One of the things that I've always found interesting about the Girl Genius series is that there are so many people who are caught between wanting to escape their family history, and wanting to leverage the power and privilege they've inherited. The Heterodyne Boys didn't want to be Heterodynes. Agatha hates Lucrezia, but doesn't really seem to want to be Bill, either, and especially not like the old Heterodynes. Tarvek hates almost all of his family. Gil respects his father, but also finds him stuffy, oppressive, and narrow-minded. :But at the same time, all of these people are faced with the biological reality that they have a Spark that is at least partly genetic, and the social reality that many people respect them only because of their family tree. Wherever they go, no matter what they do, Agatha is the Heterodyne, Gil is the Baron, and Tarvek is a claimant to the throne of the Storm King. It's very unfair, but still an aspect of the world that everyone has to at least partially accept. :(As an aside, I've never liked the nature vs. nurture way of putting things. Firstly, both can obviously be important in certain circumstances. Secondly, there can be environmental, biological factors to behavior that are neither related to natural causes or social influences, e.g. lead poisoning. Thirdly, humans are wildcards. Even identical twins raised under the same roof are not identical people. Personality is never an exact science.) Quantheory (talk) 00:23, February 18, 2019 (UTC) :P.S.: I actually interpreted the Castle's command to be at least partly a matter of family rivalry (the Sturmvorauses and Heterodynes seem to be uneasy neighbors, after all?). The Castle didn't have to believe that Tarvek was a bad person (it doesn't care about that sort of thing!). But it may believe that Sturmvorauses are indoctrinated to believe that Heterodynes are bad. Or that they may have a cynical interest in countering the Heterodynes. Or that they are an obstacle to the Heterodyne conquering the area around Mechanicsburg. Or that it's just a matter of family honor. I don't really see this as being about the Castle just singling out the Sturmvorauses for hatred out of pure prejudice. Quantheory (talk) 00:35, February 18, 2019 (UTC) :: Yeah, I guess the Castle is definitely one of the old-school Heterodynes! I wonder if Agatha is ever going to undo some of those death traps... I suppose I was including lead poisoning under "nurture," i.e., everything except heredity. (Yeah, I know, you don't have to tell me about the effect of environment on mitochondrial DNA.) But the in-world understanding I'm talking about isn't that subtle. Even Simon Voltaire had trouble seeing past his Heterodyne prejudice. ➤ :: I don't suppose this will ever be taken up in GG, but if Agatha doesn't want to be Bill-and-Barry, and also doesn't want to be an old-style Heterodyne, what are the Jägers going to do with themselves? I guess Ivo is thinking about that. On the other hand, Agatha seems to love making weapons, so maybe she ''will want to be Bill and Barry. ➤ :: Then again, our heros are still adolescents. So of course they reject everything about their parents. Maybe someday we'll get to see what they're like when they get older, like the epilogue to Harry Potter. Bkharvey (talk) 01:15, February 18, 2019 (UTC)